What do you think is OK for women to do in a church context?
Is it allowable for women to:
- to be the sole head pastor of a church?
- be the head pastor of a church along with their husband?
- be ordained ministers?
- preach regularly in church?
- preach occasionally in church?
- lead the Sunday service?
- lead a mixed Bible study?
- lead youth group?
- share a testimony from the front of the Sunday service?
- do the bible reading in the Sunday service?
- teach Sunday school?
- share somethings they've learned from the Bible with a male friend?
Everyone places themselves somewhere on this continuum - at either end or somewhere in the middle. Somewhere along the line we draw a line.
There are other related issues too.
Is it allowable:
- for a guy to listen to women preach?
- for a girl to listen to a woman preach to a mixed audience when she doesn't agree with it?
- for a pastor at a church to allow women to do any of the things in the list above?
- to go to a church where women have more freedom than your conscience would allow?
- to support women missionaries who preach to mixed audiences in their overseas locations?
Women especially feel pressure to have "where they stand" all figured out before going into ministry positions.
Men also want to have it figured out before they head into pastoral positions and have to make decisions as to what roles women will have in their church.
When I think about it these questions seem vaguely familiar.
- What constitutes work on the Sabbath?
- Can a person pick the grain off the ground, but not if it's still on the stalk?
- Can a person's hand be healed on the Sabbath?
- How far can a person travel on the Sabbath? ...
I wonder if, in our good and godly desire to follow God's will in our lives we have ignored the weightier matters.
- Is the gospel being preached faithfully? (I fear some people may prefer to hear a male preach a bad sermon than a women preach a good one!)
- Are people being saved?
- Are people being built up by the ministry of women (whatever it is and to whomever it is)?
- Is the contribution of women in your church shaping your church for the better?
- In their ministry, are the women themselves becoming more like Jesus?
- Are the women, and those they are ministering to, increasingly displaying the fruit of the spirit? Are they increasing in faith, in hope and in love?
Placing limits on women's minstry is sometimes perceived as being the godly choice. I certainly don't think it is, I don't think it's that important.
Where we draw the line shouldn't be the issue.
5 comments:
I am thinking this stuff through, your line of argument has given me something to chew on. Thanks.
Hey, no worries. Happy chewing.
Have you got any thoughts you'd like to share?
An anecdote comes to mind. A visiting missionary (male) was telling a prayer meeting about ministry in Vietnam about 14 years ago. He described how a Pastor had planted a church which was solid and growing. He went missing in suspicious circumstances and his wife was approached to lead the church. She did, and the church grew significantly in number. My (then) minister said "we might suggest that this leadership by a fenale is not biblical." The missionary shrugged his shoulders and said "All I can say is that the church is growing and people are being saved."
normally I tend not to get into these sorts of debate, since thousands of people before me who are smarter than me can't figure out this issue, what is the point for me to create more trouble?
However, as I read your blog, I am thinking about replying, not directly responding to your argument, but the philosophy undergirding your argument.
I think your philosophy (the underlying assumption) is that as long as the final result is good, the means doesn't matter.
I think there is a danger in this and I believe often many Christians and churches take this approach because of the worldly influence.
The Bible teaches us to do the right things, the things that please God. And God is the One who looks after the final result.
Recently there is a verse always in my mind: "but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him." (Acts 10:35).
Now I am learning that every decision I am making I try to make sure that I am doing the right thing according to Biblical principles, I should less worry about the outcomes.
So according to my logic, the fact that more people are saved still can't prove whether it is right that woman can have authority over man in leadership in the context of church. This debate still has to go back to the question - what does the bible says about the relationship between man and woman?
Hi Allan,
Thanks for your thoughts. You ask good questions.
I'd agree with you that we need to discover what the bible says about the man/woman relationship, and especially how it applies to the church. My argument here should always submit itself to that question.
I have come to my own (constantly developing) conclusions on that.
One thing I'm increasingly convinced about is that the bible isn't clear as to what the application should be for us today. As you say, there are many clever, faithful, evangelical people who still can't find agreement on men/women's roles in the church.
You say:
"I think your philosophy (the underlying assumption) is that as long as the final result is good, the means doesn't matter."
That's not exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm saying that I don't think the bible is clear on what the means should be, so in that case, one of the factors that should be taken into consideration is "what is the fruit?"
I think this is a very difficult issue, because almost everyone (subtly or not) differs on what the application should be to the church and marriage - but the application is so salient to our church life and practice. Can there be a healthy evangelical parish church where some people are egalitarians and some are complementarians (and everything in between) where all viewpoints are accepted (provided they're biblical) and shape the practice of the church?
I think we need to treat issues with the degree of importance that the bible gives them. And I don't think this is one of the more important issues. We shouldn't use where someone stands on this issue to determine how orthodox we regard them.
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